Curse

Corporeal Ghost · May 28, 2010, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The problem is the bar compression Mind Wrack gives. That skill alone makes the mesmer dish out well over 2000-3000 dmg a minute (if played right). That's ignoring the fact it also denials energy, and next to non-interruptable.

Do people even know what vocabulary established pre-Eye means anymore? Bar compression is when you take fewer skills on your bar and have the same amount of utility. Mind Wrack is when you bring 2-3 skills on your bar to make Mind Wrack better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

the part i emphasyzed is my point, pretty much. seems the issue is just on your part.

Yep, we agree on that part. But (unless I grossly misunderstand your posts) you're saying Mind Wrack is a bad mechanic as it allegedly "punishes" people for correctly weapon swapping to hide energy, when in reality it rewards them anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

e denial is over the top + damage needs a tone down, not even negative set will save u in this case, the 2 x esurge is an instant 160 dmg aoe follow up with spiritual pain + overload + 1 deep wound ur gone

What? The negative set saves you from the 160 "instant" damage, thus negating half of that three spell long, three character "spike".

Quote:

Originally Posted by muhahaha

Extremely frustrating that mind wrack is promoting the 1234567 roll on keyboard style.

It really wasn't. I promise. The bar was far more useful if it was used intelligently. It's kind of a moot point now, though. Overload is no longer spammable without paying attention, and Wastrel's and friends don't trigger it anyway.

urania · May 28, 2010, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

Yep, we agree on that part. But (unless I grossly misunderstand your posts) you're saying Mind Wrack is a bad mechanic as it allegedly "punishes" people for correctly weapon swapping to hide energy, when in reality it rewards them anyway.

my point is that the damage dealt when swapping to low set is WAY overboard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

It really wasn't. I promise. The bar was far more useful if it was used intelligently. It's kind of a moot point now, though. Overload is no longer spammable without paying attention, and Wastrel's and friends don't trigger it anyway.

sorry, but you dont get to defend OP builds. old e surge bar was fine, this one is not.
anything, really ANYTHING is stronger when used by good players - be it balanced builds or overpowered builds. fear me, ranger spike, spirit pooping, smiteways, hexways, anything becomes ridiculously strong (if not unbeatable without a hard counter) in the hands of good players when its already overpowered by default.
saying how gimmicks or power creep are good for the game because good players bring them to a next level of (ab)use is a rather lousy argument. SW sins were good and even better when used by a smart player (however rare those might have been)! fear me was just horrid to play against, so were the original paragon teams, spirit pooping and hexways along with "skillful" -11 energy deb shot pew pewers.
now why on earth were they nerfed, huh.

Edit: just noticed they tweaked the update a bit.

Skill Changes

* Crippling Anguish (PvP): reduced Energy cost to 10; reduced Health degeneration to 1...5; removed 50% attack speed reduction.
* Mind Wrack: Energy loss is now triggered only by your non-hex Mesmer skills.
* Overload: increased recharge to 12 seconds; now recharges 80% faster if the target was using a skill.

--

they honestly dont wanna get it its the damage thats overboard, not the stupid energy loss.
at least overload wont be spammed on recharge anymore, yipee.
...

Corporeal Ghost · May 30, 2010, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

my point is that the damage dealt when swapping to low set is WAY overboard.

This value was not changed. If you're swapping as soon as you get Wracked, Mind Wrack is actually worse than it was before the buff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

sorry, but you dont get to defend OP builds

This is the wrong sentiment. There have been plenty of OP builds that were beneficial for the game. Gale Warriors. 2005 era miscellaneous dom bars. Arguably, Boonprot. The list goes on. The point is that utter game balance is not the end goal, not least because it is impossible to achieve. What you really want is for the best build to be both fun and skill-intensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

anything, really ANYTHING is stronger when used by good players

Obviously. The difference is that of degree. The ESurge bar is orders of magnitude better in the hands of a good player. Something like Wounding Strike is roughly the same as long as the guy running it knows where his tab key is.

That is, there are effectively two measures you want to look at here: what is the minimum effectiveness of the build in the hands of a terrible player, and what is the maximum effectiveness in the hands of a fantastic player. The larger the delta, the better for the game. However, if the former is too large, it can give the illusion of the skill being bad for the game, when it generally means a couple of numbers are too high.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

they honestly dont wanna get it its the damage thats overboard, not the stupid energy loss.
at least overload wont be spammed on recharge anymore, yipee.
...

They completely fixed the problem. If you can't see that, you do not understand what the problem was. We can only hope the build doesn't fall out of the metagame entirely, as it now takes a brain to play to any level of effectiveness at all. I'd much rather be playing pre-nerf spammy dom mirrors than quad ele split. At least people die in the former.